AMY GOODMAN on FINDING HOPE in DEMOCRACY NOW
A Q&A by Owen Lipstein
Journalist and radio host Amy Goodman's most celebrated
moment happened when Bill Clinton called in to “Democracy Now!" — her radio
program on New York City's WBAI — and she bombarded him with rarely heard
serious questions, leaving him stuttering, "Now let me... Now, wait a
minute... You started this, and every question you've asked has been hostile
and combative..." She has been shot at, literally and figuratively, over
the years, caught in the crossfire of East Timor, and accused of being too much
of an advocate for the people she covers.
She is a tireless supporter of independent media, real
coverage of real events, and a genuinely progressive agenda. People who work
with her complain that she makes them feel like slackers because she never
sleeps. She's one of those. And looking at the global, corporate, overwhelming
odds against her, we can only assume that her hope and faith are boundless. She
was gracious enough to talk with us about her work and her hope.
Owen Lipstein: Tell me about the biggest problem facing the
independent media.
Amy Goodman: I think it's about consolidation, the fact that
fewer and fewer owners own more and more of the media.
OL: And there is no end in sight, right?
AG: Right, it's only increasing. For example, Kevin Martin,
who is now chair of the FCC [Federal Communications Commission], [is] lifting a
ban on cross ownership of the media on broadcasters: It's a big problem when
you have newspapers, radio, television and towns owned by the same media mogul
like Rupert Murdoch. You have Clear Channel, which looks like it's going to be
taken over by Bain [Capital LUC], which is Mitt Romney's company — 1,200 radio
stations owned by one corporation. Bain is a company that handled pro-war
rallies.
We interviewed the [2002] South Carolina Radio Personality
of the Year [Roxanne Walker]. She worked for Clear Channel, was opposed to the
war, and she was fired. She ended up suing Clear Channel. When you have 1,200
stations owned by one corporation, which firmly cheerleads the war, what people
hear in this country is going to be affected.
I see the airwaves as clearly [belonging to] the public.
They are leased by private corporations, but they are national treasures. They
are our public commons. When they are used for one purpose, there is a very
serious problem. It's compromising in a democratic society.
OL: I think people have trouble imagining that Rupert Murdoch,
for instance, will actually conceal certain things.
AG: Let me give you an example. Rupert Murdoch owns Fox News
Corporation. He has an extremely pro-war point of view and he lost money for
years on Fox, but he felt it was important... to have this kind of outfit and
to be able to control the media in this way. He was right. He certainly has
accomplished what he wanted to.
OL: When somebody owns something or has control over it,
what's important is not only who you can fire, but who you can hire. You hire
people who see things the way you do.
AG: Exactly. You hire the people who share your point of
view so you don't have to worry about censorship. In addition, you have that
self-censorship that goes on in many organizations, or in a newspaper, where you
know what's going to get you ahead to climb your career ladder, and what pieces
will get you marginalized.
OL: How do you explain the success of your program and your
organization?
AG: I think President Bush not finding weapons of mass
destruction exposed more than himself. It exposed the entire media empire that
beats the drums of war. A few people would have believed it if President Bush
[had] just said, ''Saddam Hussein's got weapons of mass destruction,"
[but] he had something much more powerful. He had the media in this country,
and they repeated it over and over and over again.
When it was exposed that there were no WMDs, people said,
"Wait a second," but the media said [there were]. It wasn't just one
party or another. It was the media that said it. I think that people [started]
to look off the political spectrum to [find] something else, and that's really
where "Democracy Nowl" comes in. It shouldn't be as unique as it is.
Who we are and what our philosophy is is the exception to the rulers. I think
that is what all media should be. We are supposed to be holding those in power
accountable, and not just acting as a conveyer belt for the eyes of the
important powers. We are supposed to be a party to the person.
So people started looking elsewhere, and our audience [comes
from] across the political spectrum, [who are] listening to, watching, reading
the voices of people — authentic people, not the pundits who are on all the
networks and who know so little about so much, explaining the world to us — but
people in their own communities around the country and around the world, and
that's a key part of it. Even when these networks are making a fortune, they
are shutting down newsroom bureaus all over the world. We began the TV show
right around September 11th. That's when we first started to broadcast, and it
just took off.
I think people have a natural curiosity about the world.
Either they come from other places or they care about other places. Yet you
have the media shutting down in a time of globalization. We are so insulated in
this country, but I think that people really want to know, I think that has
been proved by "Democracy Now!,” — that people care about this planet we
live [on] and all the people who are here.
OL: So it was one particular lie, that, in your opinion,
fueled the idea that we need to get some popular support.
AG: That was the biggest part of it — people saying how did
the media get it so wrong?
OL: It's very impressive, the ways in which I can get your
show. I normally just like to listen, but it was actually helpful having a
little video.
AG: That video is very important. It's interesting. We use
international video from international news sources like Reuters. We thought,
Well, maybe we shouldn't get it from Reuters and other places because it will
look like everyone else, but the fact is the corporate media doesn't use 90
percent of what is put out there. It's very important to have these images on
the ground. We are not only trying to break the sound barrier on radio with all
of these voices, but [the visual barrier] on TV with images that are so
important, that are really made to take specters out of the U.S. media.
You think about the day the statue of Saddam Hussein was
pulled down by the U.S. Marines... You have CNN International and CNN Domestic
— not two different networks — same company owning both networks. CNN Domestic
showed the images of the Saddam Hussein statue being pulled down 1,000 times.
CNN International knew they could not get away with it, that the rest of the
media — the global media — were showing images of war, and so they compromised
with a split screen: the statue of Saddam Hussein coming down on one side, and
on the other side the casualties of war. Now CNN Domestic has the same access
to the pool of images, but they don't use them, and that is a very deliberate
choice: what they choose to feed us for domestic consumption, and what they put
out to the rest of the world, and that has to be challenged.
OL: Let me ask you something about sources. I found your
interview yesterday with...
AG: lmran Khan…
OL: Yes, I thought it was very interesting. Why haven't I
seen more of him? Tell me about the originality of your contacts.
AG: Imran Khan is a perfect example because we appreciate
who he is. We understand. We are a very focused team of reporters, journalists,
and producers, and every day we are speaking out on what the key stories are to
cover. And people also get in touch with us because they know we are open to
it, and that we are very concerned about the world.
Khan is an extremely big figure in Pakistan. He is the
opposition leader. He was imprisoned by [President Pervez] Musharraf. He came
to this country for a few days. We were covering Pakistan before Benazir Bhutto
was assassinated, and certainly continued to cover it after. Pakistan is one of
the largest recipients of U.S. aid, of taxpayer dollars to the tune of millions
upon millions of dollars that are sent. It’s not even that they are sent over
there, those dollars, although many, many of them are, but [that] they are used
to pay weapons manufacturers in this country like Lockheed Martin to build weapons
for the Pakistani military.
Who is this military? Who is the person in charge? He's a
general. He's a dictator. He is not popular with his own people. Why are we
shoring up unpopular dictators? It became so significant to the United States
that we went back to train and finance fighting.
OL: So on Mr Khan, how did you find him and why do I not see
that in The New York Times? How could some pivotal person like that be kind of
invisible? What is it in the organization of the media that hides...
AG: I think it's about... looking at the grass-roots
movement, being in touch with people from every country... and also exiles or
immigrants who are [on the ground in different countries] getting a sense of
the geopolitical landscape and understanding who the indigenous leaders are.
That also goes for people in this country, who the leaders in this country are
in the grassroots — not the media-appointed ones — and having our finger on the
pulse of what is going on.
OL: How do you pull it off?
AG: It's challenging. It's really getting into the guts of
what’s happening and peeling back the onion. One of the things we do on "Democracy
Now!" is play long-run speeches. It goes against all the wisdom. People
have a very short attention span. That's why there are eight- or nine-second
sound bites. There's not much you can say in eight or nine seconds, except if
people [already] know what you are talking about, and you can give great sound
bites that are ready for prime time.
But if you have something else to say — perhaps that the
current administration is doing a war crime — you can say that in four or five
seconds, but people will think you are crazy. You have to have the time to
explain what are war crimes. What are the Nuremberg Principles? What are the
Geneva Conventions: what does this mean, and where did they come from? Then you
need more time, and I really think that young people are very interested in
hearing someone think outside the box, and that takes hearing someone develop a
thought from beginning to end. That takes time, especially in a media
environment where one story has been told over and over again.
OL: And how do you deal with people feeling as if you are
stepping on their toes?
AG: We just care about getting the story out every single
day and not having those in power determine what is said or not said. I was
talking to some European journalists who were saying [that] in this country, we
tend to treat our politicians, our so-called leaders, as royalty. We cannot be
on bended knee with these politicians. That's what they are, and they have to
be challenged. Thomas Jefferson said [that] if we had a choice of the press
without government or the government without press, he would choose the former,
the press without government, because that's how important our profession is...
[It’s] the only one protected by the U.S. Constitution.
OL: Do you think things are getting easier or harder for
folks like you?
AG: I don't know if it's easier or harder but we just keep
on pushing. I think now people are very disaffected. I think it's clear now
that Bush has managed to unite people across the political spectrum against him.
OL: To continue to do this kind of work, you must have some
serious hope. Where do you find it?
AG: The interviews I do with people every day. I think when
you just get a small circle of pundits on the rest of the networks, you can
become very cynical because what do they know, even about what they are talking
about, living in their armchairs spouting off? We are talking to people who are
doing something [for the world] at every level. That's the hope. These are not
just people who are sitting back.
When I was in East Timor, [there was this] young guy working
behind a house who dug up a piece of paper from [an] area people's back yard,
that was from the United States about a non-binding resolution in Congress
from, like, a year or two before [about] Timor, and he held that up and said,
"There's hope." He knew more about our congressional resolutions than
people in this country did.
But people here in this country, as well, are working so
hard. These are not people who are disengaged that we are talking to —
[they're] people who are deeply involved no matter how horrified they are at
the situation, and the hope is doing something about it.
"Democracy Now!" is really a forum for people to
discuss...the important issues every day like war and peace, life and death.
People are doing something about bettering this world.
You can listen to "Democracy Now!" on Saratoga
Spring's WSPN 91.1 FM, Poughkeepsie's WVKR 91.3 FM, and New Paltz's WFNP 88.7
FM.
